tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post5815751964650672896..comments2023-10-24T01:23:36.470-07:00Comments on Thin Places: random thoughts on gun controlroyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00508828835908673347noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-41113389329721590382013-01-15T10:21:43.859-08:002013-01-15T10:21:43.859-08:00I had to smile Michael at the gospel reading in th...I had to smile Michael at the gospel reading in the lectionary for this week... John 2:1-11, Jesus turning the water into wine. royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00508828835908673347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-79691486241688846032013-01-14T05:46:30.607-08:002013-01-14T05:46:30.607-08:00We have significant laws regarding alcohol use wit...<i>We have significant laws regarding alcohol use with and without driving. I can't buy wine at one of my favorite stores without showing an ID (I haven't looked 21 in a LONNNGGG time) and nobody can purchase it under age 21 anywhere.</i><br /><br />Most states have these laws as well. Here in CT, you cannot purchase a long gun under 18 or a handgun under 21. All sales of handguns (private and dealer) and dealer sales of long guns must have a transaction number from the State Police. Federal law requires any firearm purchaser to be 18. <br /><br /><i> And obviously both alcohol and cars have purposes other than weapons.</i> As do firearms. Hunting, protection, sport. Last time I checked, drinking wasn't an Olympic or collegiate sport (OK, maybe collegiate) but shooting is in both categories. <br /><br />Not so apples and oranges. Maybe tangerines and oranges. <br /><br /><br />Speaking of Denmark, did you know that they have one of the highest rates of private gun ownership in Europe and one of the lowest gun homicide rates? Same thing for Holland, which has the highest gun ownership rate in Europe and one of the lowest gun homicide rates. On the other hand, Norway (right next door) has the lowest rate of private gun ownership and the highest gun homicide rate. Interesting, hmmmm? Michael J Mahoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06239057043899114566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-12864799090173317542013-01-13T09:13:33.629-08:002013-01-13T09:13:33.629-08:00and with fewer guns even criminal on criminal shoo...and with fewer guns even criminal on criminal shootings would decline.<br /><br />1st, I didn't advocate banning all guns.<br /><br />the drunk driver example is another apples and oranges issue. We have significant laws regarding alcohol use with and without driving. I can't buy wine at one of my favorite stores without showing an ID (I haven't looked 21 in a LONNNGGG time) and nobody can purchase it under age 21 anywhere. And obviously both alcohol and cars have purposes other than weapons. The argument holds no water. <br /><br />Tobacco? Ditto on serious regluations. Heck, here in CA you aren't allowed to smoke in many public outdoor areas. And there has been a concerted public relations campaign to lower the number of smokers which in large degree has been successful.<br /><br />As to abortion, you know we don't entirely agree here but, I would love to see a serious effort to lower the number. In my best of all worlds that number would be zero. I recently read that Denmark has the lowest rate of abortion in the West, about 1/3 that of the US. General wisdom there is that the low rate is a result of excellent sex education, readily available and I believe free birth control, positive supports for families with children including those with disabilities, and a cultural understanding that abortion is inappropriate as a form of birth control. Works for me. I'd love to see us match of exceed their numbers. FWIW, just like violent crime, haven't abortion rates been dropping in the US?royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00508828835908673347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-12439519444722939622013-01-12T13:04:58.379-08:002013-01-12T13:04:58.379-08:00Somewhat obviously. You get rid of guns, you get ...Somewhat obviously. You get rid of guns, you get rid of gun deaths. You get rid of knives, you get rid of knife deaths. (Gun death stats, btw, include police shootings and criminal-on-criminal shootings, which are the most common.)<br /><br />Drunk drivers killed more people last year than died from gun deaths, and none were justified. Why don't I see you advocating for banning alcohol? Or tobacco? (And you know I so badly want to throw abortion in there.). Michael J Mahoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06239057043899114566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-82645338566006020352013-01-12T11:23:23.759-08:002013-01-12T11:23:23.759-08:00I didn't say I expected any of my ideas to be ...I didn't say I expected any of my ideas to be implimented ;-)<br /><br />As for the cost of a buy-back, the question deserves another question, What are the lives of 10K people killed by guns each year worth?<br /><br />Yes, I know there are youth shooting programs and perhaps some have positive results in a few kids lives, but we have decided that youth are not mature enough to exercise certain rights. One can't drive a car at age 13 regardless of how mature they are or what kind of training programs or experience they've had. One can't vote until 18 even though the person elected will make decisions that will impact their lives in significant ways. But it is OK to put a gun into a 12 year old's hands?<br /><br />Your raising the issue of murder rates vs. gun ownership is another of the apples and oranges arguments you see among liberals and rightly dismiss there. Gun deaths do not equal murders. Gun deaths include accidental deaths and suicide by gun. Murder rates include poisoning, bludgeoning, stabbing, etc. etc. For me, gun control is not about murder, it is about gun deaths. I think I was consistent in the use of that term in my original post.royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00508828835908673347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16811369.post-17705862275726676802013-01-12T08:25:36.514-08:002013-01-12T08:25:36.514-08:00Your arguments are pretty salient, but your conclu...Your arguments are pretty salient, but your conclusions are a little scary. <br /><br />A gun buy-back program isn't tenable. What do you think the average value of a licensed firearm is? $500? $600? Let's assume $500 to keep the math easy. And let's say a third of the guns get bought back. 100 million times $500? For Democrats that's chump change, I know, but that's some serious scratch. Any other solution is taking legally owned personal property away from law-abiding citizens, and that will seriously never happen. <br /><br />What about all the youth shooting programs? Tens of thousands (if not more) young people learn how to safely handle and respect firearms each year. I personally know kids who went to college on full scholarships because of their shooting skills, and others who got partial scholarships. <br /><br />According to a recently published Harvard Law Review, there is actually an <i>inverse</i> relationship to murder rates and gun control in Europe. For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership, and the lowest murder rate. Holland has the lowest rate of gun ownership, yet almost the highest murder rate. On average, countries with less than 5000 registered guns per 100,000 people have a murder rate <i>three times higher</i> than countries with 15,000 or more registered guns per 100,000. <br /><br />According to the FBI, states with the highest level of registered gun ownership have the lowest murder rate and the inverse is true. <br /><br />I don't have any problem with registration or background checks. I think they are a good idea. Michael J Mahoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06239057043899114566noreply@blogger.com